Run, fascists, run!
Run, fascists, run! Top work everyone.
Red Rag is proudly powered by
WordPress and Union Labour.
The thinking Laborite would as lief be found in bed with a cobra as in a committee room armed with "arguments" from the Tory press." Truth, Perth, 19 June 1915.
Formerly a green activist, Steve Edwards has made the transition to over-the-top right-wing nutter.
Left-leaning group blog with an academic and philosophic bent, addressing issues all over the world, and starring Australia's own John Quiggin.
[US] Gary Nuzzi traverses law, politics and culture with a keen eye and ascerbic tongue.
Uncle strays from the ABC to the Fairfax broadsheets, but that doesn't help.
Crazy shit from Paul Kilmurray. His comment threads are swell.
A blog about industrial relations, trade unions, and the insidious WorkChoices legislation.
I have just been having a look at those photos of young Mr Hau’s blog. Alas, it all seems self-indulgent and a tad pointless to me. Fighting right wing loons with members of rather loony left groups hardly seems that great. I’ve long given up seeing the value in demonstrations, particularly against small fringe groups like these.
It is self-indulgent, two minority groups having a go at each other and the website owner making the event look bigger than it realy is.
I am going to have to strongly disagree. The rubbish that PYL have been spewing is ridiculous. Good on Darp and associates for making them look like the loser idiots they are.
Excuse me for ignoring you, Watchdog.
Darlene, your jaded thirty-something routine is getting stale.
Well, in your opinion, Robert and you are entitled to it.
Everyone knows PYL are tossers, but equally everyone knows that so are more radical left groups. So, leave groups like PYL alone and they will retreat into the obscurity from which they came.
Actually, hope I didn’t sound a bit narky with my “you are entitled to it” thing. Not really into slanging matches. So apologies if I came off a bit rude.
Anway, if I could just clarify something, I am not against protesting against anything as such. It is one of the benefits we have from living in a democracy. Although, I do suspect that the march has served its purpose as a tool of activism and that newer methods have to been found. Hey this jaded old stale (love it, think I am going to use it as the sub-title to my blog) bugger was at the anti-Iraq march in Brisbane last year and it wasn’t hard to leave it with the feeling that it was a great mass of humanity, but all to no purpose.
BTW, I was still pleased to see the end of Hussein.
Also think you have to pick your targets. There will always be extremists of both sides around. Some people just have that pathology in their character. Giving them publicity just encourages them, I suspect. As I mentioned on Darp’s blog, I read a book years ago called I was a Teenage Fascist. The author recounts how his group thought that their big moment had arrived because they had got some publicity. Alas for them only about seven people turned up to their meeting and a couple of them were journalists.
I Was A Teenage Fascist was a cracker of a book. The author’s name was David Grearson, published in 1994.
As to Darp & co. demonstrating, I only regret that I wasn’t there. After all, from little fringes of nazis, big nazi fringes grow. I see that kind of thing as a perfect example of good people doing something so that evil doesn’t prosper.
I think the allusions to left groups being just as stupid is wrong. Where is the left group in Australia that has produced a manual documenting how to kill people they don’t like?
Don’t worry, gassit, some people just have trouble crediting “the left” with anything, not matter how righteous their cause. It’s like some kind of mental block. Cowardice is the new black. Sixty years ago our grandfathers were fighting these fascists for the good of our country – and now it’s suddenly unfashionable? If the unions and left-wing groups are the only ones willing to take up the cause, then I know whose side I’m on.
Sixty years ago our grandfathers were fighting these fascists for the good of our country – and now it’s suddenly unfashionable?
Oh please, give me a break. These PYL guys are a bunch of crazy kids that number in the tens at most. The unions have caused more damage to Australia already than these guys could in 1000 years.
And lets not play stupid shall we, gjw? You’d be on the unions’ side whether they fought the PYL or not.
I agree with Darlene, the sensationalisation of the issue is justifying the actions of both sides, not one. Feel free to ignore that too Rob.
Please understand that my actions were taken on the basis that ignoring the PYL didn’t facilitate their going away. I have been ripping down their posters for several months before I actively began campaigning against them.
Ignoring them and hoping they’d just evaporate didn’t work. Considering that their mentor and godfather is none other than Jim Saleam, I don’t think it pays to pretend they don’t exist.
Did people ignore his old mate JVT? No, they did something about it.
Same situation, same group of fuckwits, same funny moustaches.
Same solution.
Hit em once, hit em hard.
It’s no use, Darp. Wherever there’s a Nazi, Yobbo’s there to defend them.
“Same solution – Hit em once, hit em hard”
G’day Darp,
When the word ’solution’ is used it usually means that any arising issues or problems have been dealt with. Your (or their) attempt to connect with the general public seems to have made little impact apart from making your (their) selves look just as bad but for different reasons. It’s not really any different to those mayday marches held a few years ago though of course in your situation it wasn’t as bad. You and your crowd (and the people you oppose) could learn something from that sheila that organised Sydney’s last fare-free day on the rail network. There was no petty extremism, very little in the way of politics and there was no violence, defacing of public property, obstruction of police or other criminal activity.
Please explain what your ’solution’ was aside from a soft-voiced awareness campaign that was noticed by few.
or other criminal activity
Well, there was the small matter of the theft of transport services. Or have you given up on respect for the rule of law and property rights?
Nice to see the Nazi-apologists are out tonight. The more things change…
“The only thing that could have stopped our movement is if it had been physically smashed in its political infancy.”
- Adolf Hitler.
I think I’ve said enough.
Watchdog,
I’d hardly say my campaign was noticed by ‘few’. Two consecutive runs on Australian radio’s most popular youth current affairs program, several weekly articles in the Northern Sydney local press and a half page in the Sun-Herald.
Can you please explain where by campaign has been ‘violent’?
MY
Seems like if you scratch a RWDB around here, a Nazi sympathiser bleeds.
Darlene, Watchdog, the PYL & the nazionalists can definitely use your help… okay, anyone’s help. They are coming unglued at the seams.
If the traffic to my website to hear the JJJ HACK programs I have archived is any indication, there are a couple of thousand people quite interested in the demise of these ratbags.
‘Splain this one to me: Even if I were a rusted-on, die-hard conservative, I would want Nazis just as far away from me as I could get them to avoid their polluting my message.
Unless Darlene & Watchdog are proponents of Saleam’s vile vomit of hate and exclusionism (and Darlene has talked up the Nazis on a couple of comment threads), I can see no reason for them to be coming to his defence, unless of course it’s merely to be contrary and provide idle comment fodder.
Go ahead- convince me of how right the Nazis are. Make your case.
Until then, I’ll be working to excise my neighbourhood of the PYL and their bullshit.
-weez
It’s certainly encouraging to see a community mobilize against a group threatening the well-being and multiculturalism of the area, though I can’t help but, regretfully, agree with Watchdog, only in that the issue has been sensationalized, and given a far greater importance than the PYL deserve.
I think there has been a lot of over-estimation and over-valuation of the PYL going on. They are a tiny, disorganized, un-skilled and incoherent group with a weak leadership who don’t have the sense to cover their links with various Neo-Nazi groups. You know the saying ‘Bad publicity is good publicity?’ – no doubt more people than ever before have had a chance to get curious about the PYL now. No PYL member is going to leave because of this – they envision these kinds of struggles as par for the course on a road to a white Australia.
I believe the PYL should have been countered, but the community group would have been enough. To over-value and over-estimate the power of the PYL, giving them media coverage on youth-radio of all places – their primary recruiting demography – may have been more destructive than their stickers and pamphlets ever were. I am for fight against the PYL, but I’m critical of how it’s being carried out.
I don’t know, Natasha. Sure, it’s a tiny group, but it’s being organised by a seasoned racist campaigner. When the White Devils were sticking their posters up around Perth, and vandalising people’s homes and businesses, it had a big impact, and there were only a handful of them.
I don’t think the media coverage hurt. PYL were given an opportunity to put their views, but they chose not to. They should have — as you say, it was on the radio station that speaks directly to their target demographic. Running away made them sound silly, and allowing Saleam to speak on their behalf made them sound crazy.
How would you carry out the campaign?
Darp, I didn’t say your campaign was violent. I was just making a point that it is possible to get across a viewpoint without any or all of what I said. What I can say though is that your campaign is a waste of time.
I’ve talked up the Nazis?
What the?
I don’t know what to say to that. I consider myself a rather dull centrist, actually. I don’t support totalitarianism whether it comes from the left or the right. I also happen to be a Labor voter.
Mind you, I see no reason to defend myself.
Robert, your comparison of the PYL to the White Devils is appropriate, because they were a local racist presence sticking up posters and vandalising homes, like the PYL. And a group like that needs to be dealt with by the police, the community, and the council. From what Darp has reported, it sounds like PYL action in the area is being countered and shut down faster than it is being carried out. You asked me how I would carry out the campaign – that is also what I would do, and I admire how well Darp and his multicultural organization have done it.
Though effective, these actions don’t address the cause of the problems. I would then concentrate, as many have, on drawing strong links between the PYL and Nazism: links strong enough to get the PYL ruled as illegal. Once the community based action has proven effective, this would overwhelmingly be my main focus, and the most powerful means of attack against the PYL.
Trying to pump this particular story through the media does more harm than good. The best we can hope for is that A) someone will read/hear about it and join the anti-PYL cause or B) a potential PYL member will see the light. As for option A, it seems the community action is well under control, and as for B… it is far more likely that the reader or listener had never heard of the PYL before they read the article. Now imagine what potential PYL joiners might be like: more likely to read a description of what the PYL do and want to join them, or be turned from the dark by what he views as mere ‘multiculturalist propaganda’?
While the PYL haven’t made the most of their radio air-time (to say the least), this may be viewed as mystery by some, creating a curiosity to find out who, or what, the PYL really are, leading to their website, PYL propaganda. The assumption behind the effectiveness of this media coverage is that it will ’save’ a kid potentially interested by the PYL, when I find it hard to believe anyone who wasn’t racist would be attracted to a Nationalist group, or more specifically, anyone who is willing to see the benefits of multiculturalism as presented in a sound-byte, or newspaper article, would not be attracted to the PYL anyway.
To shut down the PYL, they simply must be ruled illegal. Making everyone who hates racism tut tut and get angry at the PYL isn’t going to do anything, except draw the attention of those who might be interested in such a group. The counter protest against the miserable *4* PYL members served to bring more attention to that pitiful demonstration than it ever should have been given.
So, in answer to your question, I would carry out the campaign in the same way at a community level, and in a similar fashion to Darp’s gang, go hard after links between the PYL and Nazism. However, giving the PYL any kind of coverage on the radio, Sydney Morning Herald and the Australian has presented the PYL with more publicity, so early on, than they ever could have hoped to achieve on their own, and are more likely to gain new members as a result, than lose them.
Will try to be more concise next time…
I thought Dirk of Arm the Insane, made a valid point regarding tolerance, in a post on Darp’s campaign.
Yeah, I don’t like the word “tolerance” because it implies that there’s something wrong with, for example, homosexuality or black/Asian people. But I don’t see how that’s relevant to Darp’s campaign, which aims to correct the lies (yes, lies — the police have already told us Saleam’s lying about the Sudanese population) being spread by the PYL/CCC.
I think the primary purpose of Darp’s campaign was to promote Darp; and in this it has succeeded.
Yet another example of the more they protest their difference, the more apparent their similarity. The symbol doesn’t matter, the tactics and belief in the right to force a viewpoint is identical- both sides are totalitarian dickheads. And BTW- the union’s sole contribution to fighting fascism in this coutry was to hold the Australian government to ransom by refusing to load supply ships; the bastards shouls have been immediately conscripted and sent to New Guinea, where they could explain to their countrymen why they were witholding their logistics. Most of you need to learn some history.
Thought you may find this interesting. I’m sure the aussie nazi’s would. Hopfully if this woman discovers the truth. She’ll be the exact opposite of her evil father!
I’ve been following up a story I’ve read on several Jewish sites and also neo-nazi sites. And various other forums online. I believe the story is truthful, as there’s too much detail and the way I read it, the Jewish sites or a Jewish site broke the news and the Nazis saw it and published it.
Apparently, the infamous mass murderer, Dr.Josef Mengele, has an illigitimate daughter, who was born in early 1961 to an Australian woman of German ancestry. Who had been in Paraguay. Staying in a German colony there with her mother and brother, in mid-1960. It is believed the mother of the child was unaware, at the time, of who the child’s father was. But that her mother (now deceased), referred to as “A” in some articles, was well and truly aware and indeed had friends or relatives in that colony. The mother discovered the horrific truth in the mid-70’s, according to the source, believed to be a close relative and confidente of the child’s mother, until recently. The mother who is referred to as “V” in several articles then had a breakdown. I cannot blame her!
The child was adopted out and was born in Australia (The State of Victoria).
According to the source. The child tracked her birth mother down in the early ’90’s. The mother “freaked”. She acknowledged that she was indeed her mother but didn’t want to meet her, but gave her some information regarding her background. But nothing was published as to exactly what. The girl/woman probably is unaware of who her father is(?)
The child had enclosed a few snapshots. One being a close-up of herself and the second, of her 2 children; A baby girl and a toddler son. The mother was quoted as commenting on how the child had an “eerie and uncanny” resemblence to Josef Mengele. That she had “hauntingly beautiful blue eyes”. But what affected the mother more was that both Mengele and his daughter had a mole on the left side of their faces, in almost an identical position. The child had blonde hair, whereas Mengele’s was darker. Otherwise, apparently she was said to have a very strong resemblence to her infamous father.
I really feel sorry for her. If she doesn’t know and discovers the truth. What would you do? I try to put myself in that situation. But I can’t really, as I’m Jewish and it would clearly effect me in a far different way. I lost family members in The Holocaust.
I’m only 39 so didn’t know any of them, but have heard the terrible stories. If that woman, who was referred to as “J” put all the pieces together. It would probably be enough to get her thinking, as there’s the issue of a private adoption, and certain conditions we involved. One being their race! Another, I believe, was religion. Mengele’s parents were strict Catholics.
They stated the child was 4 weeks premature. Apparently Mengele referred to her as “his early birthday present” or “another early birthday present”. This makes sense. Mengele’s birthdate is March 16. His son Rolf’s is March 11. Therefore it would be fair, to my way of thinking, to assume his daughter was born between March 1 and March 15 1961. There was other information too, and to be honest. The whole thing has me really thinking. What would you do if you found out your father was one of the most hated men in history?
I’d be interested in any feedback. It’s an issue, I have never thought about before, but there must be many children out there whose father, or less likely, mother is an almost universal hated figure. And they are unaware of it. The law of averages says some MUST discover the truth. What a nightmare! If the pieces are put together from the things I have read on various Jewish, nazii and non-Jewish forum sites etc. Since the child knew enough to trace her birth mother. I think she would well and truelly have enough information to really wonder whether it could be her they are talking about. In other words, she could trace herself!
I am going to have a chat with a psychologist friend of mine next week and ask him what he thinks.
Is there no end to hearing about vermin such as Mengele? We have to remember what he and others did. But now, it’s possible he’s going to crush someone (his own daughter) from beyond the grave. Unless, she inherited his views. I pray she did not. And I pray for her.
There is a poll about Mengele’s daughter at http://www.misterpoll.com/3708044159.html
Check it out.
-I don’t know, Natasha. Sure, it’s a tiny group, but it’s being organised by a seasoned racist campaigner. When the White Devils were sticking their posters up around Perth, and vandalising people’s homes and businesses, it had a big impact, and there were only a handful of them.-
Except, Robert, that the Left response to the White Devils in Perth never once employed violence, even in the face of threats from the White Devils (and being one of the people they threatened, you should know all about this) and neither was violence in any way integral to the plan to shut down the White Devils in Perth.
It’s a very poor activist that needs to resort to violence to shut down an extremely marginal group and their very few members, particularly when those groups are run and/or inspired by convicted violent crims, as van Tongeren and Saleam both are, and therefore already under intense police scrutiny.
That’s right. The Left in Perth thoroughly out-played the White Devils, and we did it without a single punch being thrown. Anyone who contends that violence is necessary to shut down such groups, is not thinking hard enough.
Alternatively, they are simply too eager to employ violence, and are blind to non-violent alternatives which we must see as being innately superior if we are to maintain and perpetuate the perception that the Left IS preferable to the Right.
How the daughter of Josef Mengele can trace herself.
Living in Australia myself. I have a fascination with this story. While each site I have found anything relating to Mengele’s daughter on. Has always had the main points. But some of the less ‘interesting to the public’ details may be found on only one or two sites. It’s like putting a jigsaw puzzle together.
I have no doubt there are sites I have not accessed with other ’small’ details that others have decided not to add or are not aware of.
Therefore I want to put all the pices of the puzzle, I am aware of here. If someone discovers something I have not. Please add it to this.
1. The child’s mother, referred to as “V”; allegedly being the first letter of her first name. Travelled with her mother “A” and her older brother, who no initial is assigned to; to a German colony in Paraguay. This was in mid 1960. Though no date is specified.
2. “V”’s mother is German. There is nothing whatsoever mentioned about her father.
There are intimations that the mother’s reason for visiting that colony was to see relatives and/or friends, who, like Mengele, may have been hiding there.
3.”V’, aged 23 at the time had an affair with a male who was also living in that colony.
It is believed she was not aware of this man’s true identity. But that her mother was. (Her mother is now deceased).
4. “V” returns to Australia. To discover she was pregnant. Abortion wasn’t an option. “V” had no intention of keeping the baby. “A” let someone in the colony, possibly Mengele himself, know what had happened. “A” was asked if she would raise the child. But she declined. So, adoption negotiations ensued.
5. Mengele, whose parents were strict Catholics, as were “V”’s. Despite being a lapsed Catholic himself. Either in honor of his parents or in the belief that the child would be brought up better in a religious home. Made it a condition that the adoptive parents were Catholic. There was a second condition. That being that the parents were white.
Because there were conditions set. This turned it into a private adoption which would be worked out through lawyers rather then the relevent government department in Australia.
6. The child,a girl, was born a month early, in 1961, in the state of Victoria, Australia. Mengele was let know, most likely by “A”, the now grandmother of the baby girl. Mengele was believed to have said, “an early birthday present” or “another early birthday present”. Josef Mengele was born on March 16. His son, Rolf was born on March 11. Most articles, I’ve seen have implied from that, that the child would have to have been born between March 1 and March 15, 1961. I don’t think they can narrow it down quite so far and in my opinion. I would suggest a time frame of between February 20 and March 15. For those with an interest in astrology, this means that the child is almost certainly a Piscean, like her father and half-brother.
7. The child wasn’t adopted until August 1961. She was then referred to as “J”. The name the adoptive parents gaves her’s first initial.
8. “V” discovered the father of her child’s true identity sometime in the 70’s. She was said to have “freaked” and started consuming large amounts of alcohol.
9. When certain laws regarding adoption information, were reformed in the state in which the child was born. The child attempted to trace her mother. She succeeded.
Enclosing a close-up photo of herself and another with her two children. They were described as a boy toddler and a female baby.
10. “V” was very uneasy about the “eerie, uncanny” resemblance her daughter had to Mengele. Telling her confidente, a close family member. That her child had the same “hauntingly beautiful blue eyes” and was dumbfounded by the fact that the child had a mole on her left cheek in an almost identical place to where Mengele also had one. The one difference was the daughter had blonde hair, whereas Mengele’s was considerably darker. The mother wrote to her Sydney based daughter, acknowledging she was indeed her mother, but that she did not want a meeting. That she had never had any other children and had never married.
11. The fact that she had two children in that picture from the early 90’s. Does not mean she hasn’t had more children since.
12. There was no futher contact between mother and daughter.
13. At some stage before this story surfaced. The child’s mother and the close relative, who was her confidente and knew everything from the pregnancy, to the father’s identity, to the girl tracing her. Had a falling out of a huge magnitude. It was over a large amount of money. The cofidente was clearly cheated out of what she deserved and after several years fighting it. Ended up with nothing. So gave or sold the story, as an act of, to her mind, justified revenge. And intimated that it was her intention the mother find out what she’d done. Contact her to discuss the possibility of her releasing much more specific information. Full names etc. In order that the mother is so fearful of that, that she would give the confidente the amount of money she was denied.
14. It has been reported that the mother did here of the story and fled to the Barossa Valley, in the state of South Australia, where there is a large German community. This implies she has no intention of repaying her confidente. So it is posible that a much more detailed article will appear in time.
I hope sincerely that the child traces herself as it’s inconceivable to think of how she may be affected if told by the media, for instance!
[Deleted. Sorry; it's an interesting story, but this isn't really the place for it. And pasting an entire Wikipedia entry would result in a deleted comment even if it was.---RC.]