Comments on: Industrial relations campaign update http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/ "The thinking Laborite would as lief be found in bed with a cobra as in a committee room armed with 'arguments' from the Tory press." --- Truth, Perth, 19 June 1915. Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:29:18 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Wombat http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10721 Wombat Fri, 04 Nov 2005 02:24:52 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10721 So what yobbo, even if unions were doing that, you'd prefer the government's alternative of driving wages down and scerwing workers rights. I mean any decent economics student can see the effects. People who don't have to work will be more likely not to, and those thinking about making a discretionary choice to do so will be less likely to do so (therefore laughable that Costello's been imploring us to increase the participation rate and then Howard goes and does the very thing that will stuff it). Thus the workforce partcipation rate will go down, consumer spending will and thus economic activity will go down, and business investment will go down as demand for their products is less. And of course Howard says 'my guarantee is my record' and presumably he's referring to the economy, yet the effect these changes will have on the conomy will stuff his beautiful little record. Pathetic. So what yobbo, even if unions were doing that, you’d prefer the government’s alternative of driving wages down and scerwing workers rights. I mean any decent economics student can see the effects. People who don’t have to work will be more likely not to, and those thinking about making a discretionary choice to do so will be less likely to do so (therefore laughable that Costello’s been imploring us to increase the participation rate and then Howard goes and does the very thing that will stuff it). Thus the workforce partcipation rate will go down, consumer spending will and thus economic activity will go down, and business investment will go down as demand for their products is less. And of course Howard says ‘my guarantee is my record’ and presumably he’s referring to the economy, yet the effect these changes will have on the conomy will stuff his beautiful little record. Pathetic.

]]> By: dirtbikeoption http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10710 dirtbikeoption Wed, 02 Nov 2005 05:16:14 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10710 Anything to say about the world's real cartels, Yobbo? Anything to say about the world’s real cartels, Yobbo?

]]> By: anthony http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10706 anthony Tue, 01 Nov 2005 08:39:26 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10706 It seems like just yesterday they were dole bludgers and job snobs. It seems like just yesterday they were dole bludgers and job snobs.

]]> By: Yobbo http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10701 Yobbo Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:00:40 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10701 "Solidarity is about more than just words - it’s about all workers putting their money where their mouths are." It's about forming a cartel to keep the unemployed exactly where they are, which is what Observa was trying to get at. Unions artificially inflating minimum wages and conditions only benefits union members at the expense of the rest of society - but especially the unemployed who suffer most because of the minimum wage. “Solidarity is about more than just words – it’s about all workers putting their money where their mouths are.”

It’s about forming a cartel to keep the unemployed exactly where they are, which is what Observa was trying to get at.

Unions artificially inflating minimum wages and conditions only benefits union members at the expense of the rest of society – but especially the unemployed who suffer most because of the minimum wage.

]]> By: dirtbikeoption http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10695 dirtbikeoption Sat, 29 Oct 2005 01:02:31 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10695 I love it how observa talks about the unions' "true constituency" and "self-righteous rhetoric". I love it how observa talks about the unions’ “true constituency” and “self-righteous rhetoric”.

]]> By: flute http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10690 flute Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:15:36 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10690 I had the pleasure of hearing Hawkey say his bit on ABC702 and he was fucking brilliant, clear and inspiring. I have not heard any ALP arsehole, especially Smith get anywhere close. Thank fuck for the ACTU. I had the pleasure of hearing Hawkey say his bit on ABC702 and he was fucking brilliant, clear and inspiring. I have not heard any ALP arsehole, especially Smith get anywhere close. Thank fuck for the ACTU.

]]> By: Robert http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10689 Robert Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:52:10 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10689 <strong>Breaking news: Neoliberal organisation supports neoliberal policy</strong> Nice one, Observa. By the way, I covered that report <a href="http://www.redrag.net/2005/09/18/ir/" rel="nofollow">over a month ago</a>. Try to keep up. Breaking news: Neoliberal organisation supports neoliberal policy

Nice one, Observa. By the way, I covered that report over a month ago. Try to keep up.

]]> By: observa http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10688 observa Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:49:07 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10688 I'd agree walt that unions are beholding to their members and should rightly act in their best interests, just like any vested interest group. Governments OTOH, have to govern in the interests of all, which is why they may believe particular IR reform can have significant benefits for those without such strong and vocal representation. I understand this is an IR update Rob, but was interested in where the opponents of the govts IR reform were really coming from and juxtaposed the Beazer's tax comments here for that purpose. It relates generally to where the unions and their friends are often coming from and where they see their true constituency, despite their self-righteous rhetoric from time to time. Still, here's an update for you from an organisation that can perhaps see the bigger picture eh? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17063088-29277,00.html I’d agree walt that unions are beholding to their members and should rightly act in their best interests, just like any vested interest group. Governments OTOH, have to govern in the interests of all, which is why they may believe particular IR reform can have significant benefits for those without such strong and vocal representation.

I understand this is an IR update Rob, but was interested in where the opponents of the govts IR reform were really coming from and juxtaposed the Beazer’s tax comments here for that purpose. It relates generally to where the unions and their friends are often coming from and where they see their true constituency, despite their self-righteous rhetoric from time to time. Still, here’s an update for you from an organisation that can perhaps see the bigger picture eh?
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17063088-29277,00.html

]]> By: Robert http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10686 Robert Fri, 28 Oct 2005 05:23:11 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10686 This is an <em>IR</em> update, Observa, which is why I didn't include coverage of Labor's <em>tax</em> package. Well, that and the fact that this post was up days before the report you've linked to. This is an IR update, Observa, which is why I didn’t include coverage of Labor’s tax package. Well, that and the fact that this post was up days before the report you’ve linked to.

]]> By: walt http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/27/ir/comment-page-1/#comment-10685 walt Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:29:48 +0000 http://www.redrag.net/2005/10/26/ir/#comment-10685 Observa what's wrong with working for your constituency? It is the responsible thing to do. Of course unions need to pro-actively recruit among non unionised workers (& the progressive ones do), and to build alliances with the disempowered and unemployed; but unions are legally constituted bodies with rules, structures, and a moral responsibility to those who provide their resources. That is, the people who may be working for as little $14 an hour but still pay their union dues. The working people who benefit from Union-negotiated EBA's and Union-backed Awards but don't have the commitment to join the union (until they get into trouble at work) should expect reciprocal support. Solidarity is about more than just words - it's about all workers putting their money where their mouths are. Observa what’s wrong with working for your constituency? It is the responsible thing to do.

Of course unions need to pro-actively recruit among non unionised workers (& the progressive ones do), and to build alliances with the disempowered and unemployed; but unions are legally constituted bodies with rules, structures, and a moral responsibility to those who provide their resources. That is, the people who may be working for as little $14 an hour but still pay their union dues. The working people who benefit from Union-negotiated EBA’s and Union-backed Awards but don’t have the commitment to join the union (until they get into trouble at work) should expect reciprocal support.

Solidarity is about more than just words – it’s about all workers putting their money where their mouths are.

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