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	<title>Comments on: Whoops</title>
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	<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/</link>
	<description>"The thinking Laborite would as lief be found in bed with a cobra as in a committee room armed with 'arguments' from the Tory press." --- Truth, Perth, 19 June 1915.</description>
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		<title>By: John Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10940</link>
		<dc:creator>John Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 04:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10940</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say Singapore is vital to Australia&#039;s security because of its role in the US Pacific alliance system, rather than its independence from it.  The Five Power Defence Arrangements look good on paper but in practice our defence policy  is now yoked to US intelligence sharing and power projection.    

Singapore&#039;s lobbying helped get Aus admission to the East Asian Summit, its students help subsidise our universities and the trade/investment flows are in Singapore&#039;s favour (they&#039;re our 8th largest trading partner, we&#039;re their 11th; then ).  
In short we need them, not vice versa.  

As for their military units up in Queensland, they could always find somewhere else; Singaporean units already train in Taiwan, Indonesia and the US.  The real loser would be Rockhampton&#039;s economy.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say Singapore is vital to Australia&#8217;s security because of its role in the US Pacific alliance system, rather than its independence from it.  The Five Power Defence Arrangements look good on paper but in practice our defence policy  is now yoked to US intelligence sharing and power projection.    </p>
<p>Singapore&#8217;s lobbying helped get Aus admission to the East Asian Summit, its students help subsidise our universities and the trade/investment flows are in Singapore&#8217;s favour (they&#8217;re our 8th largest trading partner, we&#8217;re their 11th; then ).<br />
In short we need them, not vice versa.  </p>
<p>As for their military units up in Queensland, they could always find somewhere else; Singaporean units already train in Taiwan, Indonesia and the US.  The real loser would be Rockhampton&#8217;s economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Janice</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10939</link>
		<dc:creator>Janice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10939</guid>
		<description>As I don&#039;t believe in Execution I think he should have been given life in Changi. He was a drug trafficker after all. Whats with all the total strangers who never met him crying? I saw them on the news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I don&#8217;t believe in Execution I think he should have been given life in Changi. He was a drug trafficker after all. Whats with all the total strangers who never met him crying? I saw them on the news.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Edwards</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10936</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 23:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10936</guid>
		<description>The same, I might add, holds for the Bali Nine, except the difference is the Indonesian justice system can certainly be paid off if we need to get our citizens out of trouble. Indeed, I think we have an obligation to bribe the judges, given it was actually the Australian Federal Police who blew their cover and got them arrested in Bali, rather than in Australia on the trip back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The same, I might add, holds for the Bali Nine, except the difference is the Indonesian justice system can certainly be paid off if we need to get our citizens out of trouble. Indeed, I think we have an obligation to bribe the judges, given it was actually the Australian Federal Police who blew their cover and got them arrested in Bali, rather than in Australia on the trip back.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Edwards</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10935</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 23:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10935</guid>
		<description>The difference between Australia and France is that France&#039;s GDP is at least 3 times the size of our GDP, and they are actually a significant power, and we are not. The USA does not really need any explaining. They could probably get their citizens off in any country around the world, bar China, North Korea, Iran etc. 

The problem with using Singapore&#039;s troop deployments as a bargaining chip is that it would lead to the demise of the Five Powers agreement, and, therefore, the only defense treaty we have outside of ANZUS. The effect of this would be to abolish any real independence we might retain from the United States government, and any leverage we have period. 

It would also mean that we have exactly zero reliable friends in South East Asia remaining. 

I still think Nguyen did deserve a lot of sympathy, not because of the circumstances of his arrest (he damn well knew what would happen if he got caught), but because facing certain death at his young age should not be wished on &lt;i&gt;anyone&lt;/i&gt;. But there is no justification for gratuitously spitting on our only real ally in South East Asia to save a single life of somebody who was not innocent, and knew exactly what he was doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference between Australia and France is that France&#8217;s GDP is at least 3 times the size of our GDP, and they are actually a significant power, and we are not. The USA does not really need any explaining. They could probably get their citizens off in any country around the world, bar China, North Korea, Iran etc. </p>
<p>The problem with using Singapore&#8217;s troop deployments as a bargaining chip is that it would lead to the demise of the Five Powers agreement, and, therefore, the only defense treaty we have outside of ANZUS. The effect of this would be to abolish any real independence we might retain from the United States government, and any leverage we have period. </p>
<p>It would also mean that we have exactly zero reliable friends in South East Asia remaining. </p>
<p>I still think Nguyen did deserve a lot of sympathy, not because of the circumstances of his arrest (he damn well knew what would happen if he got caught), but because facing certain death at his young age should not be wished on <i>anyone</i>. But there is no justification for gratuitously spitting on our only real ally in South East Asia to save a single life of somebody who was not innocent, and knew exactly what he was doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10934</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 23:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10934</guid>
		<description>Craig.  Yes of course - anything&#039;s possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig.  Yes of course &#8211; anything&#8217;s possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10930</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 06:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10930</guid>
		<description>Could it be that they had run with a potentially false piece of information, realised it was false and then withdrew it? Seems more plausible than a conspiracy theory that the media are doing the government&#039;s bidding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could it be that they had run with a potentially false piece of information, realised it was false and then withdrew it? Seems more plausible than a conspiracy theory that the media are doing the government&#8217;s bidding.</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10929</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 03:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10929</guid>
		<description>Craig.  This information was in the Age or SMH, yesterday and in the Australian today.  Prior to writing the above, I went to reconfirm clarification from these media sources and the references had been cut.  Reuters also had this  information and the link has now disappeared.  

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA360012004?open&amp;of=ENG-SGP supplied this information as well and again when I went to retrieve it - no information could be found.

This is not the first time a controversial piece of information has been published and within a couple of hours has been censored.  

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig.  This information was in the Age or SMH, yesterday and in the Australian today.  Prior to writing the above, I went to reconfirm clarification from these media sources and the references had been cut.  Reuters also had this  information and the link has now disappeared.  </p>
<p><a href="http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA360012004?open&amp;of=ENG-SGP" rel="nofollow">http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA360012004?open&amp;of=ENG-SGP</a> supplied this information as well and again when I went to retrieve it &#8211; no information could be found.</p>
<p>This is not the first time a controversial piece of information has been published and within a couple of hours has been censored.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10928</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 02:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10928</guid>
		<description>Julia, have you got details or links on the French and US citizens who were granted clemency?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julia, have you got details or links on the French and US citizens who were granted clemency?</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10927</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 02:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10927</guid>
		<description>Yes Craig, Van Nguyen has been turned into a martyr, but this has all been so unnecessary.  I still can&#039;t understand why the US and France have managed to extricate citizens from death row in Singapore, but Australia has left all  protests until the last minute.

Howard now says - &quot;Let this be a lesson to all young Australians&quot;.  Of course it&#039;s a lesson, but the big boys who engage these young traffickers still get away free because they have legitimate business covers for their trafficking.  Immediately one mule is caught, he/she is replaced with another one.  This is not slowing down the drug war.

Singapore has 6,000 troops in Australia engaged  in military exercises.  We have plenty of bargaining power, but as usual Howard will not ruffle international feathers as  he likes to be  seen as &quot;doing something&quot; regardless of how ineffectual it really is.  It always looks impressive on the surface though.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Craig, Van Nguyen has been turned into a martyr, but this has all been so unnecessary.  I still can&#8217;t understand why the US and France have managed to extricate citizens from death row in Singapore, but Australia has left all  protests until the last minute.</p>
<p>Howard now says &#8211; &#8220;Let this be a lesson to all young Australians&#8221;.  Of course it&#8217;s a lesson, but the big boys who engage these young traffickers still get away free because they have legitimate business covers for their trafficking.  Immediately one mule is caught, he/she is replaced with another one.  This is not slowing down the drug war.</p>
<p>Singapore has 6,000 troops in Australia engaged  in military exercises.  We have plenty of bargaining power, but as usual Howard will not ruffle international feathers as  he likes to be  seen as &#8220;doing something&#8221; regardless of how ineffectual it really is.  It always looks impressive on the surface though.</p>
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		<title>By: skribe</title>
		<link>http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/whoops/comment-page-1/#comment-10925</link>
		<dc:creator>skribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 01:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redrag.net/2005/12/01/1461/#comment-10925</guid>
		<description>Fucked?  Literally?  Is this before or after the hanging? =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fucked?  Literally?  Is this before or after the hanging? =)</p>
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